Sunday, December 04, 2005


Sidetracked Again (again)

Also on the Challies Forum

[quote="b frank and RobeFRe"]I am always amazed at the way Calvinists go at
Armenians with a full tilt while Armenians seem to stand there and take it.

I think that you have noticed one aspect of this debate which "by-standers"
can hardly fail to spot.

In general, I think Arminians do not choose to attack their Brethren.
Wesley disagreed with his Calvinist friends, but never went to war with
them on this issue. He was far too busy preaching the Word of God (the
Bible, which in practice if not in terminology he regarded as "inerrant").
he was far too busy preaching a Gospel which saw people convicted of
sin, pointed to the Saviour dying on the Cross, brought to
faith in Him, born again, and brought into living holy lives
as a fruit of having been saved.

It has not been part of my study, by choice, to look at this debate with
calvinism. And if you look at the original 5 points of Fundamentalism
(about 80 years ago), you find no argument on this issue. They are 5
foundational truths which any true Christian ought to be able to accept
without debate. And they were put forward so that Christians may
fellowship together in spite of disagreements on other issues.

Now what I see from posts on web sites which are supposed to be about
"discernment" issues such as the apostasy facing us, is shocking. I see an
ungracious "full tilt" assault on those who do not accept that salvation is
forced on people regardless of their choice; who believe that the scope of
the Atonement (the work of our Lord Jesus Christ on the Cross of Calvary,
and all that involves) is unlimited; who believe that, having been saved by
faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, we are called and destined to holiness of

I see people eager to stick the knives in those who do not dot every T and
cross every I of TULIP. I see people condemning them to burn in hell
because anything other than full-blown calvinism is an abominable false
gospel which is far more satanic than anything the new-age movement, than
anything that roman-catholicism, has ever produced.

Now it is not my calling to attack calvinism. And I don't need to. The
total lack of any "fruit of the Holy Spirit" shown by the propponents of
calvinism attacks it far more eloquently than I ever could. And if you want
to find a starting point for Biblical analysis of calvinism, try . Dave Hunt's book, "What Love is This?" is
very long because it includes a meticulous statement of what calvinism
teaches. And Dave Hunt submitted his findings to calvinist teachers so that
they could confirm or correct that he had got it right. By contrast, I find
in this debate all sorts of things falsely attributed to Arminianism without
any effort to check the facts. So I have tried to restrict my contributions
to showing something of what Arminian thinking actually is, rather than
commenting on calvinism.

This post is too long, but I must add a footnote. I have found on another
web site the name of Rick Warren included amongst "Arminians". But Warren's
obvious theology of predestination in for example "Purpose Driven
Life" is definitely not Arminian. No way is Warren Arminian, and his
bringing-in-the-kingdom programmes shows it.

Hi there, I was surfing the internet and I found your blog. I enjoy the style of how this all works.

I'll be coming back again.


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